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Kurt Vonnegut vs. the !&#*!@
By Joel Bleifuss | 1.27.03 | print | email | comment
| Kurt Vonnegut | vonnegut.com
In November, Kurt Vonnegut turned 80. He published his first novel, Player Piano, in 1952 at the age of 29. Since then he has written 13 others, including Slaughterhouse Five, which stands as one of the pre-eminent anti-war novels of the 20th century. As war against Iraq looms, I asked Vonnegut, a reader and supporter of this magazine, to weigh in. Vonnegut is an American socialist in the tradition of Eugene Victor Debs, a fellow Hoosier whom he likes to quote: “As long as there is a lower class, I am in it. As long as there is a criminal element, I am of it. As long as there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” —Joel Bleifuss You have lived through World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Reagan wars, Desert Storm, the Balkan wars and now this coming war in Iraq. What has changed, and what has remained the same? One thing which has not changed is that none of us, no matter what continent or island or ice cap, asked to be born in the first place, and that even somebody as old as I am, which is 80, only just got here. There were already all these games going on when I got here. … An apt motto for any polity anywhere, to put on its state seal or currency or whatever, might be this quotation from the late baseball manager Casey Stengel, who was addressing a team of losing professional athletes: “Can’t anybody here play this game?” My daughter Lily, for an example close to home, who has just turned 20, finds herself—as does George W. Bush, himself a kid—an heir to a shockingly recent history of human slavery, to an AIDS epidemic and to nuclear submarines slumbering on the floors of fjords in Iceland and elsewhere, crews prepared at a moment’s notice to turn industrial quantities of men, women and children into radioactive soot and bone meal by means of rockets and H-bomb warheads. And to the choice between liberalism or conservatism and on and on. What is radically new in 2003 is that my daughter, along with our president and Saddam Hussein and on and on, has inherited technologies whose byproducts, whether in war or peace, are rapidly destroying the whole planet as a breathable, drinkable system for supporting life of any kind. Human beings, past and present, have trashed the joint. Based on what you’ve read and seen in the media, what is not being said in the mainstream press about President Bush’s policies and the impending war in Iraq? That they are nonsense. My feeling from talking to readers and friends is that many people are beginning to despair. Do you think that we’ve lost reason to hope? I myself feel that our country, for whose Constitution I fought in a just war, might as well have been invaded by Martians and body snatchers. Sometimes I wish it had been. What has happened, though, is that it has been taken over by means of the sleaziest, low-comedy, Keystone Cops-style coup d’etat imaginable. And those now in charge of the federal government are upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography, plus not-so-closeted white supremacists, aka “Christians,” and plus, most frighteningly, psychopathic personalities, or “PPs.” To say somebody is a PP is to make a perfectly respectable medical diagnosis, like saying he or she has appendicitis or athlete’s foot. The classic medical text on PPs is The Mask of Sanity by Dr. Hervey Cleckley. Read it! PPs are presentable, they know full well the suffering their actions may cause others, but they do not care. They cannot care because they are nuts. They have a screw loose! And what syndrome better describes so many executives at Enron and WorldCom and on and on, who have enriched themselves while ruining their employees and investors and country, and who still feel as pure as the driven snow, no matter what anybody may say to or about them? And so many of these heartless PPs now hold big jobs in our federal government, as though they were leaders instead of sick. What has allowed so many PPs to rise so high in corporations, and now in government, is that they are so decisive. Unlike normal people, they are never filled with doubts, for the simple reason that they cannot care what happens next. Simply can’t. Do this! Do that! Mobilize the reserves! Privatize the public schools! Attack Iraq! Cut health care! Tap everybody’s telephone! Cut taxes on the rich! Build a trillion-dollar missile shield! Fuck habeas corpus and the Sierra Club and In These Times, and kiss my ass! How have you gotten involved in the anti-war movement? And how would you compare the movement against a war in Iraq with the anti-war movement of the Vietnam era? When it became obvious what a dumb and cruel and spiritually and financially and militarily ruinous mistake our war in Vietnam was, every artist worth a damn in this country, every serious writer, painter, stand-up comedian, musician, actor and actress, you name it, came out against the thing. We formed what might be described as a laser beam of protest, with everybody aimed in the same direction, focused and intense. This weapon proved to have the power of a banana-cream pie three feet in diameter when dropped from a stepladder five-feet high. And so it is with anti-war protests in the present day. Then as now, TV did not like anti-war protesters, nor any other sort of protesters, unless they rioted. Now, as then, on account of TV, the right of citizens to peaceably assemble, and petition their government for a redress of grievances, “ain’t worth a pitcher of warm spit,” as the saying goes. As a writer and artist, have you noticed any difference between how the cultural leaders of the past and the cultural leaders of today view their responsibility to society? Responsibility to which society? To Nazi Germany? To the Stalinist Soviet Union? What about responsibility to humanity in general? And leaders in what particular cultural activity? I guess you mean the fine arts. I hope you mean the fine arts. ... Anybody practicing the fine art of composing music, no matter how cynical or greedy or scared, still can’t help serving all humanity. Music makes practically everybody fonder of life than he or she would be without it. Even military bands, although I am a pacifist, always cheer me up. But that is the power of ear candy. The creation of such a universal confection for the eye, by means of printed poetry or fiction or history or essays or memoirs and so on, isn’t possible. Literature is by definition opinionated. It is bound to provoke the arguments in many quarters, not excluding the hometown or even the family of the author. Any ink-on-paper author can only hope at best to seem responsible to small groups or like-minded people somewhere. He or she might as well have given an interview to the editor of a small-circulation publication. Maybe we can talk about the responsibilities to their societies of architects and sculptors and painters another time. And I will say this: TV drama, although not yet classified as fine art, has on occasion performed marvelous services for Americans who want us to be less paranoid, to be fairer and more merciful. M.A.S.H. and Law and Order, to name only two shows, have been stunning masterpieces in that regard. That said, do you have any ideas for a really scary reality TV show? “C students from Yale.” It would stand your hair on end. What targets would you consider fair game for a satirist today? Assholes. Joel Bleifuss is the editor of In These Times, where he has worked as an investigative reporter, columnist and editor since 1986. Bleifuss has had more stories on Project Censored's annual list of the “10 Most Censored Stories” than any other journalist.
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READER COMMENTS pardon my ignorance, but what is a "C-student"? Posted by: I on 1.27.03 | 7:35 pm from E Rock on, Kurt Vonnegut! Go not gentle, etc. We the people must withdraw support from all places that support The Assholes, the Great Parasites, the Scum that has risen to the top: Strike, boycott, obfuscate, refuse, withold information, taxes, cooperation. Send their fucking garbage mail back to them in their own self-paid envelopes-- let the assholes recycle it themselves... Agitate. Posted by: Bruce McNaughton on 1.27.03 | 8:34 pm from Colorado "Thank You" For the first time in my 72+ years I fear this government. It sure as hell isn't mine nor the people of this country. Yet, I see and hear people defending the deranged ones in Washington.??? Just a sculptor who Questions! Posted by: george de Merle on 1.27.03 | 10:58 pm from Arlington, Tx. The webpage layout makes it difficult to read the article in its entirety as many of the words seem to be getting cropped (right margin). Posted by: SJ on 1.28.03 | 1:06 am from Sri Lanka I've always loved this man. Posted by: Jerry Brooks on 1.28.03 | 5:29 am from Sioux City, IA GREAT & TRUE Posted by: ALI LALLO on 1.28.03 | 6:18 am from UAE Absolutely Marvelous!.....except that part about the 'aka christians'. some of us walk the walk. LOVE this interview! Love this man! right on the mark. Praise Yeshua the Messiah. Shalom. Posted by: gretchen har-vonKeller on 1.28.03 | 12:16 pm from colton, CA,USA Thank you Kurt Vonnegut for calling George Dubbya Bush exactly what he is; a "C student". A "C student" that doesn't give a crap about Humanity or the planet it happens to live on! Apparently, the Bush Junta (aka Assholes) that pull his strings don't give a crap either. So, why isn't the media (or the general electorate) picking up on the anti-war movement and the anti-Bush movement? B/c they don't give a rats ass about anything but ratings and let's face it... WAR sells baby! Especially to the sheep that would rather drive around in their gas-guzzling SUV's and BMW's than pay one iota of attention to what their "government" or their "president" are doing. Sigh. Keep on keeping on Mr. Vonnegut! Some of us are indeed listening and doing what we can to Fight The Power. Posted by: CLR on 1.28.03 | 4:22 pm from Long Beach CA Great interview.....I laughed out loud....... Posted by: Dr. M. L. Simmons on 1.28.03 | 5:01 pm from Florida Did anyone email this article to the C-Students or the PP's . Thanks Kurt Vonnegut!!!!!! Posted by: M. A. Hinton on 1.28.03 | 5:45 pm from Richardson, TX "C" students from Yale is a reference to George W. Bush's less than stellar academic record while he was a student there. An "A" usually corresponds to students who receive 90-100 on their tests and papers; a "B" is awarded to students who score between 80 and 89; a "C" is given to students with scores between 70 and 79. Posted by: Emily on 1.28.03 | 6:18 pm from Los Angeles Kurt Vonnegut, I've loved ya ever since I found you when I was fourteen years old (God Bless You Mr. Rosewater). Thank you -- you've always spoken the truth. Posted by: JC Hoosier on 1.28.03 | 6:25 pm from Indiana Civil disobedience in the face of an impeding immoral and unjust W-ar will be the "line in the sand" to will be the ultimate patriot act. Posted by: ken on 1.28.03 | 8:01 pm from Colorado Wow, it would seem Mr. Vonnegut has taken to channeling me in his old age. Or maybe it's just that great minds think alike. Whatever the case, Vonnegut's mind in motion inspires hope where there is no logical reason for it. Posted by: Shedona Chevalier on 1.28.03 | 8:02 pm from Maryland While Kurt may bemoan the futility of artistic protest of war, I have at least found that his many words of sane perspective on war help me to feel that I am not alone in my own similar perspective and that even a little bit of beauty is worth preserving. These realizations are at least helpful in reducing the likelyhood that I myself will commit crimes against humanity, which is a comfort to me, and should be to others who fathom the creative mind bent on destruction. Which reminds me to make up a new word that means "creative destruction" as it applies to the idiots who cleverly created various machines to destroy various articles leaving little or no salvageable material. At least the old castles turned nicely back into stone walls and houses and roads. What will the Iraqis turn uranium-contaminated twisted steel and concrete rubble into next year? Maybe when the "war" is "over" we can send millionaire "C" students over to Iraq to don radiation suits and play paintball amid the ruins of buildings that appeared to satellites to be weapons factories disguised as schools and hospitals. They can pay for the reconstruction of the country, renamed "I-Rock", as a kind of "vultural tourists". Bad-ass oilmen can fly mock sorties over glow-man's-land, no night vision goggles necessary. Why bomb them once? When the place is leveled, what fun to give mega-contracts to buddies, let them half-rebuild it, and then do it again! If the Bushes themselves go over, we'll call it "Geeko-tourism". Well Kurt, as always, it's treat to sit at your word feast. And the ensuing excrement hardly stinks. Love, Last of the Literates Posted by: Jerome Millay on 1.28.03 | 10:38 pm from Blue Hill, Maine Our Mark Twain!! Posted by: Ric Speed on 1.29.03 | 12:49 am from Rio Rancho, NM I've been a lifelong fan of Vonnegut since I was 15 and read "Cat's Cradle" (and then everything else he's written), but now I revere him as only of the only few Voices we have left in this mess called Modern Day America. Kudos, K.V., and thank you. Posted by: B. Schaefer on 1.29.03 | 1:17 am from Los Angeles, CA desparate- suffering extreme need or anxiety inspire- to breathe into We need artists just to keep us breathing under the weight of this madness. The satirists, especially, help us breathe by provoking the lungs to laugh. The Assholes have achieved such an advanced state of absurdity that it simultaneously begs and defies parody. "They misunderestimated me." -GWBush It's like the sound of one hand clapping. It just blows the mind. Thank you, Mr. Vonnegut, for continuing to be a source of inspiration. I lost my father when I was 14yrs old and your work was a real life-line while growing up grieving. My parents raised me on your books and working class politics. My mother even brought you some of her homemade bread, years ago, at an independent bookstore that has since been run out of business by the big chains. We've lost so much but, we still have power in our creativity and in the soles of our feet. See y'all at the palace wall. In Struggle and Awe, Nannette Posted by: Nannette Hiller on 1.29.03 | 4:05 am from Rochester, NY Proof positive You can fool some of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but Kurt Vonnegut *none* of the time!! Now, we have to get more people to listen to him. Roci Posted by: Roci on 1.29.03 | 4:31 am from Midwest USA The scary part is that the C's were gifts because the Profs. weren't allowed to flunk him. Posted by: Amanda Sharpe on 1.29.03 | 7:59 am from Austin, Tx K.V. The Bill Mauldin of print journalists. Bill did it in pen and ink with Willy and Joe. K.V. with "Slaughter House 5" Posted by: Jerry Brooks on 1.29.03 | 8:25 am from Sioux City, IA Kurt Vonnegut is a national treasure! Thanks for this wonderful commentary, it gives many of us courage to move forward and stand up for our beliefs in a world that wants to make us feel unpatriotic. Thank you Mr. Vonnegut, you are my hero. Posted by: Liz Schulte on 1.29.03 | 8:45 am from Brecksville, OH "Laughing out loud", at Mr .Vonnegut"s interview may be OK, - as long as the tears are running down the laugh lines. Posted by: Ruth I Gove on 1.29.03 | 9:02 am from Peabody, MA you just can't say it any better ! My question is, how long can I keep the sad truth from my kids that the earth is a goner, assholes are in charge, and that the only responsible existential thing to do is to make your own life have meaning - hopefully by being kind and helping others ??? I find it horrifying that by being honest with them I could be charged with psychological child abuse.... Posted by: miriam lerner on 1.29.03 | 9:15 am from western NY God bless, Mr. Vonnegut. Posted by: susan mcdonald on 1.29.03 | 9:21 am from nashville, tn This article was sent to me by my 27 year old pacifist som who has always considered K V to be a mensch. The line about not asking to be born has been his mantra to me. Now that his hero has said it, I must indure it more intensely. Liked the interview very much. Posted by: Mary Walb on 1.29.03 | 9:25 am from @aol.com This article was sent to me by my 27 year old pacifist som who has always considered K V to be a mensch. The line about not asking to be born has been his mantra to me. Now that his hero has said it, I must indure it more intensely. Liked the interview very much. Posted by: Mary Walb on 1.29.03 | 9:25 am from @aol.com Funny, I googled "ignoramuses" and I was sent over to this site... now i know why. Posted by: Justin on 1.29.03 | 10:56 am from Vonnegut is one of a very few who speaks very clearly on the issues of the day. His integrity and caring deeply for the U.S. shines through. As he says TV, news especially, is an opiate for this awful bunch of PPs as they do their destructive things. Worse than this may well be the weakness of the voices in academia. As a whole they seem to care less for the consequences of the Iraqi invasion. Is precedence of no concern or value to us? The U.S. more than any nation benefits from a lawful multilateral world. That is, its people as a whole benefit but may not the PPs. And that may be the problem. Or, that is likely what they think. Just ignore the general population and conservation, etc. Thanks for offering us this piece. Posted by: Leonard L. Gambrell on 1.29.03 | 11:08 am from Las Cruces, New Mexico The comments on this article were as inspiring as the interview itself. Just to know that there are people out there watching, and willing to go to the line--or the palace wall, or the protest, or the homeless shelter--to seek justice is hopeful. It seems to me that the political divisions that we have grown accustomed to are no longer descriptive nor accurate (i.e. Bush is NOT a conservative, nor are the Democrats in any way "left.") More accurate would be: there are those who wish to preserve, and those who wish to destroy; those who see beauty, and those who see only "use." Of note is the fact that Japan is missing plutonium (enough to make 25 nuclear weapons) and that 9 Russian nuclear scientists have been missing for several years. Keep the faith. Posted by: Lisa Fox on 1.29.03 | 12:06 pm from Chapel Hill, NC Kurt Vonnegut at 80 is still the most amazing man on the planet. I have always loved him and appreciate his incredible ability to sum things up like no one else can! Posted by: LINDA POTTER on 1.29.03 | 12:14 pm from HAYWARD, CA nice interview, joel. kurt v is a great guy. and these lunatics in power are true madmen....no nukes...harveyw Posted by: harvey wasserman on 1.29.03 | 12:23 pm from columbus, ohio "God" bless you, Mr. Vonnegut. I only wish that the assholes in the mainstream media knew who you are and had the balls to run an interfview with you in their populist, government-felating publications. Thank you for being a true patriot and a true American. And a true artist! Posted by: Todd VanSteenhuyse on 1.29.03 | 12:23 pm from Cedar Rapids, IA Deadeye Dick is right on target as he alwys is! Posted by: Mac on 1.29.03 | 12:48 pm from San Antonio, TX Wonderful wisdom! Mr. Vonnegut does not suffer from Alzeimer's! Think Reagen, Heston, and so on. Posted by: Larry White on 1.29.03 | 12:58 pm from North Highlands, Ca A "C" Student is good ole' George W. He only had a C average at Yale, and he seems to be proud of it. In fact, in a speech to a school, he proclaimed "And to the 'C' students, I say that you, too, can be President of the United States!" Apparently, mediocre intelligence is enough to become the most powerful person in the world. :P Posted by: Max B on 1.29.03 | 1:24 pm from NY Love the interview, but given Mr. V's last remark and the text of "Breakfast of Champions" the title should be "Kurt Vonnegut vs. the *" I have many times in corporate meetings written the name of some self-important speaker followed by * or even ***** - thanks to Mr. Vonnegut. Posted by: Kathy Schultz on 1.29.03 | 1:39 pm from ? I wonder if our 'C-Student' President 'earned' his 'C' the same way he 'earned' his entrance to Yale. Posted by: Bette on 1.29.03 | 1:51 pm from Laguna Niguel, CA So glad to know that KV is still alive and kicking...and thankyou! Ear candy...confection...the quotes are worth more than any Rov-ing soundbite. Posted by: Dix on 1.29.03 | 1:57 pm from Right on the mark, Kurt! Especially after "W's" State of the Nation address last night, the Pres is so off the mark with what is really happening in our country today! It really is scary how many people have been snowed by the current administrations' policies. Posted by: ElvisTie on 1.29.03 | 2:06 pm from New Orleans, LA A "C" student is somebody who gets a degree but not an education. Posted by: dave on 1.29.03 | 2:35 pm from reagan Posted by: Larry White on 1.29.03 | 2:54 pm from North Highlands, Ca Kurt rocks my world. He is smart and humble and he takes our pathetic-ness and makes it just bearable enough to laugh, and while we are smiling it is safe to hope - and that is where the power is, hope gives us the courage to be better people. Posted by: Lisa Kretz on 1.29.03 | 2:58 pm from Funny, I googled 'jerkwad' and I got a picture of GeeDubya and the strange message 'Justin from Nowhere.' What the..? Posted by: Bruce McNaughton on 1.29.03 | 3:07 pm from Colorado Great article...our country has gone mad and we will have live or die with the consequences...I feel such despair at at all the lies...we should be talking about blowback...all we accuse Saddam of, the USis guilty of in spades. Posted by: michele Reynolds on 1.29.03 | 3:17 pm from laguna beach CA Thank you, Mr. V.; my faith in humanity is at least partially restored by your eloquence and incisive observations. My niece e-mailed me a bumper sticker she saw on I-95 this morning: Spay and Neuter Your Republicans. I agree. No one in the current administration should be allowed to reproduce, for fear our nation will be truly doomed. Keep writing - there are plenty of us still reading. Posted by: Melinda Dickinson on 1.29.03 | 3:32 pm from Birmingham, AL The saddest part is that most of the kids in my high school are for the war in Iraq because they feel that "nuking them" will make things better. Sometimes, I just want to cry. Posted by: Andrew Ryder on 1.29.03 | 3:34 pm from Tucson Bravo, Bravo! This is SO great! Thank God 'we' aren't alone. C Students From Yale...I love that, I just LOVE that! Thank you for such a good laugh! Posted by: Barb on 1.29.03 | 3:42 pm from Indiana I remember when this century started being full of hope and optimism for what lay ahead. I simply can not believe what the world has come to in such a short span of time. It was obvious that with Jr. in power things would go wrong, but... this wrong? Really. Please, get up, stand up, fight this madness in any way you can. Anything and everything will make a difference. Posted by: A.H. on 1.29.03 | 4:02 pm from New York Just a really brilliant interview for those interested in EXPLETIVES and anarchy. Posted by: cd on 1.29.03 | 4:18 pm from cd Good interview, but I must disagree with Mr. Vonnegut on one thing he said; that the protests of Vietnam did not matter. Those protests ended that war, and at least have kept future US wars from tolerating too many US body bags. Posted by: Guy Hallman on 1.29.03 | 4:20 pm from McAllen, TX God Bless you, Mr. Vonnegut. Many people -- nearly everyone I know right now, actually -- are in state of low level panic and despair as they see their beloved nation and freedoms disappear before their eyes, stolen by a gang of ignorant, arrogant cowboys who find it a simple thing to murder. It is nice to know we are not alone, and that there may be hope yet. Thank you. Posted by: Samuel Wells on 1.29.03 | 5:16 pm from Boulder, CO I love the idea of sending them back their garbage mail. But why stop there? Let's send them our real garbage! Posted by: CK on 1.29.03 | 5:18 pm from Houston It's nice to read the truth. I feel like he is an old teacher describing a class where there has been a mutiny by the jocks. Posted by: O. A. on 1.29.03 | 5:21 pm from Now I recall why I love and respect Kurt Vonnegut. The world of letters needs more moral, gutsy folks like KV. Posted by: Donald Winters on 1.29.03 | 6:04 pm from Minneapolilis, Mn. I think Kurt V represents all that is great about American science fiction. He describes how we move forward technologically, yet still never spend enough time on understanding our inner selves, the only thing we don't seem able to change. Perhaps thats why the cowboy needs a new indian to slaughter. Posted by: Meurig Rosser-Davies on 1.29.03 | 6:48 pm from Swansea, Wales, UK It would have been funny were it not real. I would have laughed but I'm too busy crappin my pants. I'd have used the toilet but I lost my job, my home and my family to an economic stimulus package. Can I get a do-over vote? This time I will vote for the lesser of two evils and shun my conscience. Great article. Can a copy be sent to every American who voted for Georgie Jr.? Posted by: Ted Walker on 1.29.03 | 7:08 pm from Syracuse NY * This is what our president looks like. Posted by: brainVStail on 1.29.03 | 7:36 pm from Mobile, AL Thank you so much Kurt Vonnegut for telling it like it is. President Bush I'm afraid, is headed toward becoming one of the most dangerous "PPs" this world will have to deal with. Posted by: Kevin Scanlan on 1.29.03 | 7:46 pm from Canada Amen Posted by: Gary S. Simon on 1.29.03 | 8:01 pm from New York, NY Thank you Mr. Vonnegut for reminding us that we need to focus on humanity - which is not bound by geography, language or race as we have been taught throughout the ages. The differences are in our minds. We are the human race - all of us collectively - and we need to strive to live and love while letting others do likewise. No more weapons production. No more pollution. And no more war. As the late great Bob Marley said: "Until the philosophy, that holds one race superior, and another, inferior, is finally and permanently, discredited an abandonned, everywhere is war, I say war." Posted by: VH on 1.29.03 | 8:07 pm from NYC Mr. V: Thanks for not stuttering, as usual. Everybody else: count your blessings, and GET BUSY. Just visulaize Bush as a giant sign written in letters of fire on the backside of the GOP that sez KICK ME and put on your steel toed boots. We haven't had a chance like this in a very long time. Posted by: Charles Gittings on 1.29.03 | 8:10 pm from Oakland, California KV rocks! 80 and with a 20yr old daughter! Keep cranking them out, we need you in the gene pool! Posted by: Ben Flesh on 1.29.03 | 8:40 pm from Vonnegut is a fabulous writer but your magazine and his political views are complete SHIT! Posted by: david on 1.29.03 | 8:40 pm from San Francisco Once again, Vonnegut reminds us of simple humanity and common decency. Those morals we did not recieve from our parents, we can recieve from his words, for he has yet again served to make an extended family of those who can recognize truth, yet still laugh. Posted by: rachel on 1.29.03 | 8:54 pm from jasper, al "objectively, the pacifist is pro-Nazi" george orwell--1941 Posted by: jawbreaker on 1.29.03 | 9:11 pm from OH great article ,except for the comment about christians . as a christian i find it hard to convince my fellow believers that bush and the republicans are bad news when they see remarks like that . attacking them won't convince them to change their vote . Posted by: james tanner on 1.29.03 | 9:18 pm from lakewood , CO I sincerely hope the attitudes displayed in all of these responses are a reflection of the majority, or at least an active minority of people today. It's people like KV that keep me from losing all hope even at my young age of 19. -See you in NYC, February 15!!!- Posted by: Pat Wilkins on 1.30.03 | 12:26 am from MA Thanks Kurt! and thank you Joel! keep fighting the fight. It's articles like these from magazines like yours that make me believe that thier is a little but of hope for humanity. Posted by: pete farrell on 1.30.03 | 12:38 am from milliken, co Hi Ho! Posted by: Leaf McClary on 1.30.03 | 12:44 am from Vancouver I love you, Kurt! You are a good man with many fans. But who gives a damn about good men? Look at the Yanks, they are now all behind this madman. Why? Because good men will always lose, unless they have the big money behind them as damn George has. As long as money is ruling this planet nothing will stop injustice. Cheers Posted by: Hubert Muhlbock on 1.30.03 | 1:24 am from Sydney You want a religious perspective? Anti-christ. Historical? The new Nazis. What happens when the option is either bad or worse, i.e. bin Laden or Bush? Despair. Somehow, though, incredibly I think there is a real hope for some decent aspect of humanity. The rest will simply have to be eliminated, and I would support anyone who would eliminate evil, whether that evil be Bush or bin Laden or whoever. I would rather be a pacifist, but with assholes like these, how can you be? People like these make me ashamed to be human. Posted by: Mike Miller on 1.30.03 | 1:51 am from Montreal, Canada Excellent article. Only the old can get away with speaking the plain truth. I wish that weren't true. Posted by: Mike on 1.30.03 | 3:01 am from http://www.curiousfrog.com/weblog/ Once again, everything Vonnegut says is dead on. What can I or anyone else say? He's already said it umpteen times. Posted by: Levi Ethan Cecil on 1.30.03 | 3:51 am from Boise, Idaho Bravo, Kurt. Spoken like a man who knows war for what it is. We who believe the same must never waver, no matter what flagwaving bonehead is weaseled into office. Lets Eject Bush in 2004. Posted by: R. Brady on 1.30.03 | 7:04 am from Japan Anytime someone asks me, "If you could have dinner with anyone you have never met, who would it be?" My answer is always, "Kurt Vonnegut, Jr." "C Students from Yale" IS one of the most popular shows right now. Let's hope the network execs get board with it and cancel it after four years. Reading the words and ideas of Mr. Vonnegut reinforce in me what it is to be human. For that, I am eternally greatful. Posted by: Daniel Moore on 1.30.03 | 7:45 am from Cold Spring, Ky Christians and PP's are quickly blending into the same unholy, malevolent American Pie, characterized by stupidity, ignorance, fear, hatred, bigotry and general disregard and distaste for the elevation and evolution of humanity. PP's propose and support fascism and christian's welcome it. A marriage made in heaven for these C-students! Posted by: Brian Finigan on 1.30.03 | 7:57 am from Manchester, NH Only when profit is removed from war and those in office with the most to hide are removed from office will we have a chance to fix our world. The most frightening part is the recent allegations of child molesters holding high offices both past and present. These men would do anything to hide this fact. Posted by: scared on 1.30.03 | 9:51 am from mtown What an idiot. He is a socialist pig. Vonnegut is not a patriot but a rebel with a big mouth spewing scum for the people of the 60's to hang onto. give me a break he must of been the C student he is talking about! Posted by: dave on 1.30.03 | 10:34 am from indiana The most dangerous person on earth - is the person in the mirror. It's as easy to point at Bush and blame him for the danger we face as it is to point at Saddam Hussien and say the same. The person in the mirror can solve these problems by looking for someone to help instead of someone to blame. Peace to all. Posted by: Steve Bareman on 1.30.03 | 10:47 am from Holland, Michigan I believe it was said best down in D.C. two weeks ago: in the face of all this bullshit, WE WILL BE UNGOVERNABLE! And although Vonnegut makes it seem almost hopeless, take solace in the fact that evolution and history are on our side... that there's always a dark age before a new renaissance. But since nothing is guaranteed, what are YOU going to do about insuring our future? Posted by: Paul on 1.30.03 | 11:03 am from western NY I'm feeling a lot of love in this room. Posted by: Joe on 1.30.03 | 11:06 am from Lewisburg, PA Dave from Indiana represents the small-minded, juvenile, bigoted and fascist thinking that is so apparent in our dumbed-down culture. WW2 was fought for nothing! Fascism is still here bigger and better than ever. Dave and his ilk are traitors to America - they and the simpletons they worship and adore are leading the country into dictatorship, genocide and fascism, destroying and spitting on the Constitution and the treasured American ideals and values that once made our country great. The country STINKS! Thanks, Dave!! Posted by: P. Barnes on 1.30.03 | 11:07 am from Merritt Is. FL ps: 1. Mesolithic Dark Age, 9500 B.C.E. 2. Kurgan Invasions, 4500 B.C.E. 3. Aegean Dark Age,1400-800 B.C.E. 4. European Dark Age, 476-800 C.E. 5. Contemporary Dark Age from http://www.integralage.org/docs/WITChap1.html Posted by: Paul on 1.30.03 | 11:10 am from western NY This president sees himself as a savoir of America. His ego knows no limits. He has no sense of history or of anything resembling implications of actions. I think Nelson Mandela summed it up as did Mr. Vpnnegut... They say the same things with new insights. Posted by: Mary Transue on 1.30.03 | 11:46 am from Sarasota, Fl Here in the south we all know that Bush is a killing asshole, but to read Mr. Vonnegut saying so, and in his unique way, it?s the best thing that I'd read in a long, long time. It's the civlized face of America that we don?t usually see. I hope Mr. Vonnegut stays forever as young, clever and funny as in this interview. Hi Ho. Posted by: Gonzalo on 1.30.03 | 12:03 pm from Montevideo God bless you, Mr. Vonnegut. *Audible groan from audience* Kurt Vonnegut is, I think, if not the greatest novelist of the 20th century then right up there, and I'm always glad to hear his take on things. I hope he never dies. Say, I've been meaning to write Vonnegut a letter for a while; does anyone know how I might do that? Posted by: Kyle on 1.30.03 | 12:28 pm from http://www.livejournal.com/~bluesmojo I have found that being a distant cynic is the laziest occupation one can have. The plight of any author or writer or artist or whatever is to relay some idea that he may consider truth to another audience. No one would read his shit if no one cared. We are not as disconnected as we would like to be. Later. -pba Posted by: Parth Amin on 1.30.03 | 12:34 pm from philly Yo, dave from indiana! You still livin in your mom's garage back there? Thought so. Do you even know what socialism is? It's about the working people owning the means of producing what we need to live, and not having to earn the right to live by selling our labor to the clique that owns everything. It's about the profit motive being secondary to the interests of the people. It's about citizen control of business and trade in the public interest. But I suppose your indoctrination as a 'capitalist' makes you 'just know' that having the richest five-percent of the population own eighty-some percent of the world's resources is, like, a really good thing, just because, huh? Think hard, dinkwad. Posted by: Bruce on 1.30.03 | 12:41 pm from Colorado It will sound like self promotion, but if you agreed with Mr. Vonnegut's remark that he feels as though our country had been invaded by "Martains or body snatchers", you may enjoy a song I've released which proposes exactly that idea. It's called "Go In Peace", and it's available to be downloaded from my Steam Powered Studio site, www.somewhereoutwest.com Interesting coincidence, I think, but then, Kurt has a thing for coincidences, right? Posted by: Jeff on 1.30.03 | 12:46 pm from Lancaster Look at you candy asses!!!!! Try some facts dfor a change: http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000027.html Posted by: Laughing at the Marxists on 1.30.03 | 12:48 pm from It's very easy to feel helpless when so much power is kept in the upper structure of or economic social base, and so many of us reside below that stratus. I have always believed that Scientists and Artists were two of the most important groups in a society, and I would add teachers to both groups. One enriches the physical, and the other the spiritual foundations of their societies. To hear Mr. Vonnegut mention this in his quote about musicians makes me glad these points do not go unnoticed. I can deffinately thank Mr. Vonnegut for his ability to make a desperate cynic such as myself see the finer points in even the most dreaded of times through his simple, pointed and eloquent body of work. So often we see man's continued refusal to look towards reason and instead choose to remain self-centered and ignorant. People simply do not see how things connect, how actions have grander consequences than just the immediate results. Again, this author has repeatedly conveyed this message through his medium, and his words are not knee-jerk, or thoughtless, or lacking in reason. His comment on the Christians should not be confused with those who believe in the word of Christ. Those who follow structured, organized and dictated religions (aka Christians) are a vast different lot from those who choose to internalize the beliefs of a man who had a good thing to say. In that respect, he is right, christians do tend to muddy the concepts of right and wrong. God bless you Mr. Vonnegut Posted by: Alvin Breaux on 1.30.03 | 1:09 pm from Austin, TX Look at you born agains trying to justify what he said. Posted by: Karl Grossman on 1.30.03 | 1:15 pm from At last a truth teller. If only there were more. Posted by: Barbara Shaffer on 1.30.03 | 1:24 pm from Maryland We who love him revel in the the vivid words addressed to the problem of this time, and there is only one, by the master. And he is a Humanist. Posted by: Harmon Chamberlin on 1.30.03 | 1:45 pm from Dallas, TX KV's view of christians is accurate - they are white supremacists. They monopolize the word 'christian' and reflect this filthy, man-made, heinous institution for what it is and always has been; spiritually dead, morally bankrupt, elitist and completely out-of-touch with the needs of society. It is archaic drivel that seeks only to control the minds, bodies and spirits of the people. Posted by: Brian Finigan on 1.30.03 | 1:52 pm from Manchester, NH Isn't it interesting how one little word can provoke a community? Simply throw in the word "Christian" and watch the offenses fly... Shame on KV and all of you who use stereotypes that assault the non-guilty and misrepresent who and what they stand for. For we in the United States all find ourselves the beneficiaries of those who were willing to fight for political and religious freedoms... I think the question for you is this, "When did you think that war ended? Posted by: Kevin on 1.30.03 | 2:23 pm from Illinois This amazing idea from the Boulder Mennonite Church: There is a grassroots campaign underway to protest war in Iraq in a simple, but potentially powerful way. Place 1/2 cup uncooked rice in a small plastic bag (a snack-size bag or sandwich bag work fine). Squeeze out excess air and seal the bag. Wrap it in a piece of paper on which you have written, "If your enemies are hungry, feed them.” Romans 12:20. Please send this rice to the people of Iraq; do not attack them." Place the paper and bag of rice in an envelope (either a letter-sized or padded mailing envelope--both are the same cost to mail) and address them to: President George Bush White House, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW Washington, DC 20500 Attach $1.06 in postage. (Three 37-cent stamps equal $1.11.) Drop this in the mail. It is important to act NOW so that President Bush gets the letters ASAP, preferably before the “weeks not months” when Bush plans to nuke Iraq. In order for this protest to be effective, there must be hundreds of thousands of such rice deliveries to the White House. We can do this if you each forward this message to your friends and family. "In the mid-1950s, the pacifist Fellowship of Reconciliation, learning of famine in the Chinese mainland, launched a 'Feed Thine Enemy' campaign. Members and friends mailed thousands of little bags of rice to the White House with a tag quoting the Bible, "If thine enemy hunger, feed him." As far as anyone knew for more than ten years, the campaign was an abject failure. The President did not acknowledge receipt of the bags publicly; certainly, no rice was ever sent to China. "What nonviolent activists only learned a decade later was that the campaign played a significant, perhaps even determining role in preventing nuclear war. Twice while the campaign was on, President Eisenhower met with the Joint Chiefs of Staff to consider U.S. options in the conflict with China over two islands, Quemoy and Matsu. The generals twice recommended the use of nuclear weapons. President Eisenhower each time turned to his aide and asked how many little bags of rice had come in. When told they numbered in the tens of thousands, Eisenhower told the generals that as long as so many Americans were expressing active interest in having the U.S. feed the Chinese, he certainly wasn't going to consider using nuclear weapons against them." Posted by: richard henzel on 1.30.03 | 2:38 pm from chicago I am glad at least to have lived in the same timeline as Mr. Vonnegut. His arrow always hits the mark. There is always hope as long as there are free thinkers such as he. Nam Myo Ho Renge Kyo; there will be world peace based on the dignity of the individual. Posted by: John Masterson on 1.30.03 | 3:00 pm from Seattle WA Greetings from DC. My feet are still cold from the last few weeks of protests and I am glad to hear such a honored voice in the rising chorus of dissent for this self-serving escalation. I am writing to criticize the focus on the academic transcripts of the Bush Administration. C'Mon guys this is just another heirarchy and makes Bush's critics sound like grade-snobs when they cite it as one of his flaws. Next you will be saying that only people with advanced degrees are smart or have the capacity for kindness. Jesus didn't go to college and neither did the Buddha or Mohammed. Stay on message. Bush is not a bad leader because he did poorly in school. The point is that he is a fool and they come from every walk of life. What is dangerous is that he is in power and he brought a gang of dangerously stupid folks along with him. Let us hope that wisdom prevails and that all this is simply saber rattling to disarm Iraq so we can get on with the business of fixing the global econmy and maybe dismantling the dangerous guys who did hit us a year and a half ago. Posted by: Benjamin Rhys West on 1.30.03 | 3:49 pm from Washington D.C.
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