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MSNBC Home » Technology & Science » Science » Future of Evolution

# Einstein and Darwin: A tale of two theories

## Q&A with ‘Origins’ astronomer Neil deGrasse Tyson

| Albert Einstein, shown at left in a 1938 photo, revolutionized physics and became a cultural icon. Charles Darwin, shown at right in a circa-1880 painting, laid the foundation of modern evolutionary theory, and today that theory is a cultural flashpoint.
Univ. of New Hampshire via AP file, Rischgitz via Getty Images file |

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Alan Boyle Science editor • Profile • E-mail

Special Report

• What's next for humans? • All hail King Rat • Evolving with our stomachs • New tack for creationists • Darwin vs. Einstein • FULL COVERAGE

By Alan Boyle
Science editor
MSNBC
Updated: 6:00 p.m. ET May 2, 2005

SEATTLE - One scientist came up with a new way of explaining how biology works. A generation later, the other one came up with a new way of explaining how physics works.

Today, after a century of scrutiny, both explanations still pretty much hold up. But in popular culture, physicist Albert Einstein is idolized, while biologist Charles Darwin's legacy is clouded with controversy.

Why do Darwin's theories on the origin of species, put forth in 1859, hold a status so different from that of Einstein's theories on relativity, published between 1905 and 1916? Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, director of New York's Hayden Planetarium and co-author of the book "Origins: Fourteen Billion Years of Cosmic Evolution," reflected on that question during a recent interview at the University of Washington.

Story continues below ↓

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Here's an edited question-and-answer transcript of the interview:

MSNBC: Einstein and Darwin seem to hold two different places in our society. One is virtually a pop culture icon, while some people almost want to take down the other guy's statues. Why is that we have two different approaches to these people, even though they developed theories that are in very similar states of evidence?

Neil deGrasse Tyson: While they were both scientists, Einstein was the first very public scientist who was visibly active in social causes as well as political causes. I don’t know that the same was true with Darwin. I know he was well known in his day. I know his book, "On the Origin of Species," was a best seller. But I don’t know that he was active in politics, influencing governments. I don’t know that he was approached by a sovereign nation and was asked to be its president, as Einstein was with the new state of Israel, for example.

As a citizen, as a public scientist, I can tell you that Einstein essentially overturned a so strongly established paradigm of science, whereas Darwin didn’t really overturn a science paradigm. There was a paradigm there, but it was a gradual process: “Does evolution work as Lamarck said, with the inheritance of acquired traits? No, it doesn’t” … You can see the evolution of an idea there, settling on what works, whereas Einstein took Newtonian physics and said this is incomplete, which is something that was unimaginable for the hundreds of years that we were doing Newtonian physics.

My read of history is that people wanted to get opinions on everything from someone who was so widely recognized as being so smart.

It’s kind of like the situation with rock stars today: You want to know what Bono thinks about global hunger, even though he made his money as a musician.

Exactly. So Einstein is not necessarily an expert in these other fields. Not even necessarily informed in these other fields. But people know that he’s a deep thinker. So what are his deep thoughts about Jews and Arabs, and the civil rights movement, and the bomb, and Nazi Germany? He became this sounding board for people to try to get some point of view from someone they implicitly trust, from a smart person.

David Friedman / MSNBC.com Neil deGrasse Tyson, director of the Hayden Planetarium and co-author of the book "Origins," says it's simply a matter of time before the fundamentals of evolutionary biology are as widely accepted as the fundamentals of relativistic physics.

So there’s that factor that distinguishes Einstein from Darwin. But I think there’s a stronger factor: There is no science in this world like physics. Nothing comes close to the precision with which physics enables you to understand the world around you. It’s the laws of physics that allow us to say exactly what time the sun is going to rise. What time the eclipse is going to begin. What time the eclipse is going to end. What time the meteor is going to hit.

Do you remember when David Levy and Carolyn and Gene Shoemaker discovered a comet, and they had a few measurements of it, and they said, ‘The next time around, it’s going to slam into Jupiter.’ And what’s remarkable is that no one questions that. Because they know it is the powers of understanding, derived from the fundamentals of physics, that give you that capacity to basically predict the future with high precision.

Biology doesn’t do that. Chemistry doesn’t do that. You can predict reactions, yes. You can get an understanding of how things work, yes. Darwin’s theory of evolution is a framework by which we understand the diversity of life on Earth. But there is no equation sitting there in Darwin’s “Origin of Species” that you apply and say, “What is this species going to look like in 100 years or 1,000 years?” Biology isn’t there yet with that kind of predictive precision.

So, when we speak of the theory of relativity, and the theory of evolution, they are each extremely important ways of understanding the world. But the tool kit that comes with the relativity theory, that comes with any physics theory, has a level of precision that puts it just in another category. It’s not simply an organizing principle.

When you predict that the sun is going to rise at 7:22 tomorrow morning, and someone wants to debate you … you’re going to be wasting your time having that conversation. Just walk away from it, because you know in advance what’s going to happen.

For that reason, Darwin’s theory of evolution, because it’s a theory of biology, because biology is a different kind of science from physics, it looks to the outsider as if you can just jump in and claim that things are just not what the biologist sees them to be. Now of course that’s false, but I’m just submitting to you that when you have your tool kit of predictive powers, that’s kind of like an armor at the perimeter. You’re not going to get past that to say that somehow that equation is wrong. The equation is demonstrably correct, so go home.

CONTINUED: The trouble with evolution

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MORE FROM FAST FORWARD: THE FUTURE OF EVOLUTION |

Fast Forward: The Future of Evolution Section Front
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